Are COVID Vaccines Injuring Pilots? You Tell Us

Over a year ago United Airlines required all of its employees to be vaccinated. Prior to that mandate, about one employee per week was dying of Covid-19. Following the mandate, the death rate due to Covid-19 went to zero. While many employees still caught Covid, none of the vaccinated employees needed to go to the hospital.

There are more details in the memo from the CEO Scott Kirby:
https://www.united.com/news-announcements/scott-kirby-employee-note/scott-kirby-employee-note.pdf

I’m no longer surprised to discover that a levelheaded & intelligent friend holds some (to me) totally unsupportable belief such as that the moon landings were all faked. The internet-driven explosion of these alt-reality groups remains both fascinating and scary.

Conspiracy theories appear to occupy a strange niche in the human psyche where logic becomes a twisted ball of disconnected segments that is impervious to reasoned argument. I don’t argue, I just bite my lip and stay silent.

I’ll start with this; I have no problem with persons who choose not to get the shots. I feel it is none of my business either way. I have had three Moderna shots and all I ever got was a sore arm for a couple of days. I figured since I am in my 60’s, worrying about any possible side effects that may appear 20 years from now is no big deal since I may not live that long anyway. Did not get Covid until right after this past Christmas for a few days. Felt like the 24 hr flue except it lasted 48 hours. Did not go to a doctor for any treatment of this. I have had no lingering effects after recovering. Now as far as any ECG’s are concerned my AME has not said anything to me about any issue with the last two years data. I have a medical (1st class) due in March so I’ll ask if there is any change then. If for some reason I don’t pass I’ll just retire. Definitely don’t feel any different. I have refused to have any covid tests done at my company since the quick ones have been shown to be inaccurate.

I’ve had 2 Moderna shots, two Moderna boosters and the new Moderna Bi-valent booster, all with a day of mild side effects. I’m 75 and retired due to cardiac blockage but I had a stress EKG three weeks ago and all is fine.

Hm, I’m wondering how much of a representative sample this will be. We’re likely to be a great majority of the same mindset, similar to Paul’s.

Two shots, two boosters, (3 Moderna then a Pfizer) first time I read about this bi-valent thing. I might’ve had a very mild reaction after the 2nd shot, but not sure it was just too cold in the hotel room or it was me. Except the 1st shot, then not even a sore arm. Never tested positive, respected all mandatory precautions but nothing extra. I do know of friends/family who had fairly bad reactions, anything from some shivering to 48h in bed, incapable of even talking. They all recovered eventually. I did hear about one or two confirmed deaths after the vaccine, not people I know though. I did know personally a few who died of covid, none vaccinated (unavailable yet or refused to).

With billions of shots given, to billions of people, we should all quit using our own experiences as any significant data. It just isn’t, nor is Kirsch’s information.

Paul, I am stunned that an intelligent person like yourself decided to be multi vaxxed despite getting covid multiple times. The evidence is overwhelming that they do not work and that a person of your age has an extremely low chance of death due to covid. I recommend you spend time reading about the true costs of these “vaccines”.

Double vaxxed Moderna, then all three available boosters including the bivalent version. No side effects. Had covid a year ago after the first booster, enduring a severe sore throat for a few days but no other issues.

Paul, 5 shots, all Pfizer. Only a mild reaction, if any, each time. Had Covid prior to vaccine availability but not since. Had the flu (tested and confirmed as flu only) early this month after getting vaccinated. Thanks.

Take the vaccine or don’t take it. This should not be anyone’s business nor should companies or governments mandate such. This should be a personal decision.

I agree on the conspiracy theories and generally go by Carl Sagan’s admonishment (originated by LaPlace) that “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” Conspiracy theories generally require circumstances that are simply not tenable, i.e. it would have been easier to go to the moon NINE times (six landings) than to fake it nine times. The hallmark of conspiracy theorists is a remarkable ability to reject any evidence that contradicts their stance. You can’t win an argument with a dedicated conspiracy addict and I have stopped trying.

I was vaccinated once with the “one and done” Johnson and Johnson vaccine. I never contracted COVID-19 and was never boosted. I have several friends who received one and multiple vaccinations. Some contracted COVID and some didn’t. I have several friends and family who are un-vaccinated. Some contracted COVID and some didn’t. Anecdotal evidence isn’t worth much when generalized to the entire population.

However, had I been in the shoes of the folk in charge of the general health and welfare of our nation, what would I have done? Would I have waited until more data became available? Choosing that route might have been more prudent, but we’ll never know. Given the media hysteria (and it was both hysteria and hysterical) and the clueless ramblings and actions of our political leaders, choosing a “let’s wait for the evidence” route would have cost me my “in charge of health care” job (at least) and a more media-friendly toady would have taken my place.

It was what it was and it is what it is. Hopefully we will move on and be a bit more thoughtful when the next health crisis hits (well, I can hope).

A single individual’s experience is not science, and highlighting that is a questionable approach examining the issue. With that said, I’m a cardiac electrophysiologist – I take care of people with heart rhythm problems. I read thousands of EKG’s a year, and see hundreds of patients with atrial fibrillation, and I live in an area with some of the country’s highest prevalence of vaccinated people. There has been no increase in the amount of atrial fibrillation we are seeing. Myocarditis is real, but relatively unusual and rarely has significant consequences. Vaccines decrease morbidity and mortality. Full stop.

I am 80, I have been vaccinated four times, Pfizer 2x plus boosters, having experienced mild side effects only. Vaccinations have worked for me having tested negative several times. However, I understand that vaccines are not 100% effective, so I continue to use reasonable safeguards. I keep in mind not to get sloppy because several of my friends have died due the pandemic, and more than a dozen in my family have been infected but recovered. However, as the COVID-19 mortality rates have been reduced by inoculations, it appears as if the concept of the pandemic has changed from a critical illness to just a nuisance disease resulting in communities becoming more relaxed, people are not wearing masks as much or at all, social distancing is decreasing, and large gatherings are increasing, possibly undermining the progress made. Are COVID Vaccines Injuring Pilots? Well, some of us quickly turn around and haul ass away from anyone that coughs on aisle 9. And THAT hurts!

I had all five Moderna shots. Three days after the bivalent shot my sister-in-law arrived from Mexico for a three day visit. Two days later she came down with Covid. A week later I came down with Covid. I was too sick to leave the house for a week. Yeah, I needed two weeks for full protection, not three days. If you fly or live with those who do, please get the shot as soon as convenient. Admittedly what Kirk W. said is more important but Paul’s situations seem more like mine. Good health and rubber side down.

Paul, as usual you have written an intelligent, coherent and fair minded article. Steve Kirsch is apparently smart enough in our technology driven world to have made plenty money. But he isn’t smart enough to see what’s right in front of his face. The Covid vaccines have saved many lives with very few side effects just like the polio vaccine, the mumps vaccine, penicillin etc, etc. Just like Harry Nilsson sang…..people see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear.

So far, the commentary has been thoughtful and reasoned, good to see.

Paul, you asked for personal experience and I’ll give you mine without added opinion – just the facts, as requested.
I’m 69 years old, flight medical every 6 months, 2 ECGs every 12 months (one for the flight medical the other at my annual physical).
Vaccines – 1 Astra Zeneca, 2 Moderna, 2 Pfizer (one bi-valent).
No signs of any heart issues on the ECGs and I have heart disease in my family so the Doctors look closely

What I know for sure is that I have had 4 covid shots, including the bivalent, and each time I only felt fatigued for about 24 hours after it, and then I was normal (including a normal EKG). I also know at least 14 people who have gotten two or more covid shots, none with any significant or lingering side-effects. 8 of the people I know who have gotten vaccinated have also gotten covid at some point after being vaccinated, but none of them had symptoms worse than the flu, and none of them had to be hospitalized. I do personally know someone who died of covid before a vaccine was available, though. So at least based on my own limited data set, it appears the risk of not getting vaccinated (at least in the early stage of the pandemic) is much higher than getting vaccinated.

The one thing that might be difficult to analyze is this: now that a supermajority of the world’s population has either gotten covid and/or been vaccinated, does that lower the overall risk of covid? I haven’t heard of hospitals being overwhelmed like they were early on in the pandemic, so that would seem to be the case.

I have been vaccinated since I was a child in the 1950s a total of 93 times for covid, smallpox, cholera, yellow fever, typhoid, rabies, poliomyelitis, plague, hepatitis (including 4-month injections of gamma globulin to ward off hepatitis before the advent of hepatitis vaccinations), tetanus, diphtheria, meningitis, tuberculosis, influenza, rabies, shingles, plague (no longer available), pneumonia, measles, mumps, rubella and more, and I feel great at age 68.
So-called “vaccine hesitancy” began with some now completely discredited publications in the late 90’s blaming mumps, measles and rubella vaccines for autism and then some Hollywood folks got on the bandwagon.

Fully vaxxed and boosted. It’s a global public health imperative just as were small pox and polio vaccines all of us over the age of 60 grew up with.

The FAA isn’t going to make changes to medical certification without some kind of process, likely some kind of workgroup or committee. Seems like it could be worth a FOIA request to learn how the FAA arrived at the decision to change part of the heart rhythm standard.

I had Covid (hardly any symptoms at all) before the shots were available and verified my strong antibody response with a blood test months later. When the shots became available, I chose to not get any because I knew I had antibodies, Covid didn’t hurt me, and the authorization of the shots reeked of government pencil-whipping. Following that, the amount of propaganda coming out was astonishing. I’ll not ever get one of the Covid shots.

The entire Covid ordeal is so over inflated. Here are the interesting stats, and according to them all the other deaths that far exceed Covid, and all which are much more preventable than Covid are the acceptable death rates,

Disturbingly, fentanyl has quickly and quietly become the leading cause of death among adults ages 18-45. Between April 2020 to April 2021, fentanyl claimed 40,010 lives — resulting in almost twice as many deaths in the 18-45 age range as COVID-19 (21,335), cancer (17,114), car accidents (22,442), and suicide (21,678) respectively.

What I imagine Paul’s writing process was this weekend:

“Well lets see, what to cover this week?

No airshows to cover, Cubs in the shop, chute needs re-packing, not even any bonehead pilot tricks except that 67′ Musketeer in Miami, and who wouldn’t expect that.

Oh look! That hornets nest over there. I think I’ll just wander over a give it a nice swift kick.

I like to keep my readers heart rate up around 70%, so this should keep them up there until at least Thursday.”

A real “vaccine” prevents infection or at least symptoms.
In addition, a real “vaccine” stops the spread.
This innovation does neither.
This innovation is at best a pretreatment for a lab-made virus that the human body had never experienced. In this context it was a good innovation for the most vulnerable (age 65+).
The natural occurrence of Omicron virtually eliminates the need for any additional “boosters” as it is a natural form of building immunity.

I’m a healthy 63 year old. Got the original Pfizer series in Feb 2021 because the data available at the time seemed like a reasonable risk/benefit for my age. I consider vaccines to be among the three greatest public health achievements in human history (along side clean water and antibiotics). I get the flu shot every year because I’ve had the flu as an adult and it sucks (24 hr and “stomach flu” aren’t influenza). I’ve never had Covid based on two antibody tests prior to the vax and no symptomatic illness throughout the pandemic. I wore a mask only when it was required and I had no alternative (the evidence has never shown masks to be effective).

One of the things I’ve always loved about aviation is that it is unflinchingly data driven. It is also one of the last remaining parts of American life where responsibility and authority still rests with the individual PIC. The first time I responded “unable” to a controller instruction was a powerful reminder of who’s in charge. The pandemic performance of the “experts” and far too many docs has shown just how many of them are the aviation equivalent of pilots whose judgment and skill should never allow them to carry passengers or fly over inhabited areas.

The boosters do not have robust data for either clinical outcomes (as opposed to the proxy outcome of fleeting antibody levels) or long-term safety (because 2 years isn’t long-term). As a result, I do not believe the risk-benefit calculus favors the boosters for me. Since these vaccines do not prevent infection, there is no societal (public health) benefit to tip the scales either way.

For my anecdotal evidence, I know hundreds of people and have dozens of physician friends & family. The overwhelming majority are vaccinated & most are boosted too. I do some work for a school system with > 5000 kids and hundreds of faculty and staff. I personally know no one who died from Covid, no one with “long Covid”, and no one who’s vax injured.

We fly because it brings both utility and joy. We know flying has risks. Most of us care enough to be aware of and to mitigate those risks. Though the FAA can be difficult, most of their rules are written in blood and supported by hard data. The vast majority of their employees are skilled professionals who do a great job. Sadly, the past three years have shown that if the FAA were like CDC & FDA, we’d all be grounded and any new aircraft or aircraft system from the “right” maker would be approved without question or data. The 737MAX is our cautionary tale and FAA seems to have learned its lesson (until the next time). Despite many orders of magnitude greater harm (especially to kids) from their failure to base their decision-making in hard data rather than fear and anecdote, CDC and FDA have yet to learn their lessons.

Like ALL government programs everyone is all about good intentions and the glory of being right if something actually works. Oddly enough no one is responsible for the unintended consequences of failure. Certainly no one wants to commit the required time for proper research, after all they are government, they must DO SOMETHING. Unfortunately we become a cutoff easy buttons and quick fixes. Real life with freedom isn’t like that. There’s always pain and loss.

Herein lies the problem.

To the human mind, facts don’t matter. Stories do. We tell ourselves stories all the time, unencumbered by the facts, or at least just some of them.

1,000 arguments don’t sway someone’s position, but one story might.

This is why fake news and conspiracy theories run rampant. If I don’t like what you are saying or how you said it, it’s fake news to me and off I go thinking what I thought before about whatever.

Paul approached the issue with the eye of a journalist and stated he was trying to keep an open mind and not fall into the rabbit hole of “group think”.

He used facts wherever he found them. Sprinkled with his personal experience and the observations of a few others. He raised questions to ponder, “if there is fire, where is the smoke?”

If you are pro-vaccine, it was an intelligent and thoughtful article. Paul’s usual style.

If you are anti-vaccine, it was at best riddled with falsehoods and misconceptions or on the other side of the spectrum, simply “fake” news.

It must be terribly frustrating to be a journalist in today’s environment. You strive to get the article out, with as much correct information you can find. Only to have it received with skepticism or worse, contempt! Of course there are also “journalists” who strive to put out anything but real journalism in pursuit of ratings and thus dollars.

I applaud Paul for rising to the challenge time after time.

Paul, I just did an electronic search of the National Library of Medicine (using the PubMed portal) using the search terms ECG COVID vaccine and P-R interval COVID Vaccine. I found a total of three individuals in the entire English language literature who were reported to have developed atrioventricular block following COVID vaccination. At least one was related to a myocarditis, a rare and well-known complication of COVID vaccination. As you know, single case reports have no value in establishing causation (especially when a total of three are found).

There were 50,000 articles that met search criteria for the term “COVID vaccination” and some quarter million articles that met search criteria for the term “ECG.”

The idea that COVID vaccination is causing prolongation of the P-R interval among a large proportion of vaccine recipients is completely unsupported. Not because I think it is but because it would be the first time in medical history that a major adverse effect of any widespread medical intervention (COVID vaccination in this case) that is easily detectable with a common medical test (ECG) failed to make an appearance in the world’s medical literature. It is a medical fact that COVID vaccination is the single most widely studied vaccine in the history of vaccination (it may be the single most studied medical intervention in the history of medical interventions).

Seeking anecdotal reports is an approach to fact-finding that is fraught with validity problems. For example, if you were to ask your readers to inform you should they get tingling of their lips when the TV or radio is turned on, some will say yes, they do (some of my patients have told me that). In fact, so many people have reported such an experience that blinded studies were done to test whether such an effect could be demonstrated. It could not. I mention this because any effort to seek those who claim some effect of some exposure, no matter how unlikely, will yield results. This, I fear, will be the consequence of your crowdsourcing for adverse effects of COVID vaccination.

Tech millionaires have lots of funny ideas, not all of which are true. The claims you described in your article that were made by a tech millionaire would not pass the “Daubert” standard (used to eliminate junk science) in a court of law. Also, there are medical doctor millionaires, too. Should we believe them preferentially over non-millionaire medical doctors?

COVID vaccination (and much of public health) has become political fodder. As we know, that means that opinions are often driven more by tribe membership than by evidence. Such polarization is unfortunate. Thankfully, when smallpox (which killed about half a billion people during its last 100 years of roaming free on the planet) was eradicated by vaccination we didn’t have such problems. If smallpox had not been eradicated, some of us posting here today would have already died from it.

FWIW, I am board certified in Internal Medicine and Preventive Medicine. I have been practicing medicine for 40 years and conducting epidemiological research for 30 years. I am professor emeritus of public health, epidemiology, and internal medicine at a major university. Of course, being credentialed has little relevance in today’s post-fact world.

I live in Michigan. The mortality rate in my county mirrored the rate of death in the rest of the state. Rounded numbers below…..

10 year running average 500 deaths per year (my county)
2019 pre covid 450 deaths down 10% with no explanation of why
2020 covid 1st year 500 deaths matched the 10 year running average
2021 covid 2nd year 550 deaths up 10% vaccine first year

2019 was a low rate of death country wide and for no apparent reason. It just was. The big question is did those people die in 2021 when the rate jumped or was it the vax or 19? The 2022 numbers aren’t available but will be soon. I believe 2022 mortality stats will tell more of the story about the vaccine. Check your own state records to see how they compare.

I know a 71 year (old former airline) pilot who was a vocal pro-vaxer. A year after the vax he now has serious heart trouble. He found out about his problem with an EKG.

264 million concerned citizens got the vax in good faith and how many of these have had an EKG since? I recommend that you ask your family doctor for an EKG at your next annual wellness check.

I am not an anti-vaxer. However I didn’t trust big pharma, or our government, on this one. I did test positive for 19 a year ago. The symptoms were mild and lasted only a few days. I felt worse after my last tetanus booster than I did from 19. My wife never gets sick yet she opted for the vax. She has tested positive at least twice. So the beat goes on…..

God bless.

I live in Florida. Today’s Herald-Tribune reports that 84,927 Floridians have died from Covid and more that 7.4 million – more than one in three residents of the state have been infected. I have had all 5 available shots, both Moderna and Pfizer. I’ve had no adverse reactions aside from a sore arm and have not had Covid. I still wear a mask in crowded indoor settings.

I’m impressed by the fervant belief (bordering on zealotry) that many posts on social media claim huge harm. FWIW, my immediate family and offspring, of me (70+, DNA male), my son (40, genuine DNA male), his mom (60, DNA female), numerous sibs (ranging from 50’s to early 60’s, DNA males & females), a dozen or so genuine male & female neices & nephews and their children of teens to early 40’s who are both DNA sexes… have reported (other than uncomfortable post innoculation symptoms of a day or so to 3 or 4 days) no post vaccination issues. Several family members have become symptomatic with post vaccine COVID, none seriously, and none with Long COVID symptoms. Family members who are in the ranks of the medical profession have observed any serious infections.

i know several pilots, some who were vaccinated, some who were not. Several unvaccinated pilots from mid 30s to 60s or so were hospitalized. At least one 60’s something (DNA male) who probably was not vaccinated, said he spent several days hospitalized, “nearly died” and required a ventilator to survive.

From my own observations and experience a lot of people are inclined to embrace unsupported attacks on vaccines. I’ve noticed wacky theories on social media by liars like Alex Jones (Infowars) and Fox News Tucker Carlson feed conspiracy theories and have made many who pander them rich.

I had Covid in January 2020 before any vaccines, and not much known about it. Was very sick for about 8 days, and had a bad cough that lingered for 7 weeks before fully recovering. At the time, I thought it was another failed flu shot and bad cold combined. I have not had any Covid vaccines, and have had Covid 3 times now, the last 2 times were very mild and lasted a couple of days. However, my son-in-law developed Guillain Barres syndrome two days after receiving the Pfizer shot, and it took two months before all numbness left his arms and legs. My 37-year-old son ended up with myocarditis after the shot. My wife’s stepmother had the Pfizer shot, and died of a blood clot 6 months later. Finally, my 82-year-old mother, vaxed, and boosted, developed Covid over Thanksgiving of 2021, entered the hospital around Christmas, and died on December 29th of Covid. So much for the vaccine that really isn’t. My natural immunity has served me well, and I chose not to be vaxed. This is just my personal experience with Covid and vaccines.

I frequently think that readers of this publication who choose to respond operate from “a place” that is described by this refrain from the song “Counting Stars” by One Republic.

“I feel so right doing the wrong thing. I feel so wrong doing the right thing. I couldn’t lie, wouldn’t lie, wouldn’t lie. Everything that kills me makes me feel alive”.

Here’s the deal with vaccines. You don’t take them to directly improve your chances of survival. You take them because they improve the chances of survival for the everyone, or “the herd”, and because you are a member of “the herd” your survival chances improve.

Self centered behavior is not adaptive. Isn’t that what Jesus preached?

For the human species, and for most other species as well.

My wife and I (75 and 74 now) have had all five Pfizer shots. No Covid. We still wear masks in stores and airports and commercial planes. We have also gotten flu shots every year for at least the last 10 years. Vaccines work! Without them there would be a lot fewer people in the world. If they go to annual flu/Covid shots we will get those also. Maybe some day we will dispense with the masks, but maybe not. They are no big deal really.

I’m late 50s. First 4 shots were Moderna. Fever and sore arm for about 24 hours on first shot. Shorter fever and sore arm for second shot. The boosters were timed before I was attending large events. Just sore arms and fatigue from those. Had the 5th shot (Pfizer) this past September (before another large event). I had COVID for the first time this past December after being at a conference with 50,000 people in Las Vegas, and some of my co-workers were sick and had tested positive a couple of days before I did. I had fever for about 36 hours, mostly sneezing, runny nose for a couple of days, but fatigue lasted about 10 days after that. I don’t know anyone who’s claimed they got seriously sick from the vaccine. I know a couple of older folks that died of COVID before the vaccines were available. I know two others that were in the hospital, but recovered. I know one person that has had some heart issues after having COVID a second time. He’s also vaccinated, and if he followed certain beliefs, he might blame the vaccine, but he does not.

A very insightful article Paul. As is most of the replies it really goes to show we don’t have a FULL understand of the vaccine implications. It will probably be 10 years when all this comes into perspective.
As a side, I had the Monoclonal Antibodies after the first shot when I got COVID symptoms. I never got sick. I never saw any comments on this but my have missed it.
Did you look at this treatment in your research?

I’m disappointed Mr. Bertorelli. Asking for anecdotal comments on the vaccine injury issue is just an invitation for the anti-vax trolls to come out and play.

The number of adverse events reported to the CDC are vanishingly small: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7144a3.htm. By my math, less than .03%, and less than 4.5% of that .03% were serious.

Yes there are some people who don’t do well with vaccines. Yes some are serious. But some people drop dead after they stand up too fast. Compared to the risk/death rate of Covid, the risks from the vaccines are insignificant.

This article immediately caught my attention because of the PR Interval discussion. I’ve been flying a KA 200 for 8 years single pilot and this year as I turned 71 the insurance company asked for an ECG. My regular AME is out of State for the winter, but I had his cardio tech administer an ECG. Printed out on the chart was, “Abnormal ECG, PR interval 220 msec.” Of course, I was concerned about sending this to the insurance company. Consulted with two AME’s and Aviation Medical Advisory Service and was told to see the FAA AME Guidelines which state 300 msec. is acceptable. Sent the ECG to the insurance company with the FAA guidelines, heard nothing and am still flying.

Vaxxed with booster. Had a sore arm and slight “under the weather” feeling the next day. Other than that, no reactions and no Covid.

I’d like to say something… but it may affect my medical. So, everything is great, Get your vaccine that doesn’t work according to the manufacturer… and prey you don’t die.

Difficult to tease out the data from the diatribes, the wisdom from the wingnuts, but here’s how it seems to me, anyway.
Originally, COVID vaccines (I took the J&J) offered very favorable cost-to-benefit protection. The “number needed to treat” the nasty Wuhan strain (meaning how many shots were required to keep one person out of the ICU, off a ventilator or out of the morgue) was relatively low. And the number of “unexpected adverse reactions” (side effects that could put one person into the ICU) was also relatively low. There were a lot more saves than “issues.” But the virus has changed, and so, it would appear, has the cost/benefit relationship.
Now, with a way more contagious but far milder strain of COVID circulating, and the effectiveness of boosters waning, it takes a very large number of vaccinations to keep just one person out of the hospital. And the number of adverse reactions as defined by the FDA, while still low, has now flipped; it’s become a lot larger than the number of COVID patients kept out of the hospital. In other words, we might be generating more adverse reactions per 100,000 vaccinations than saves. Meaning adding booster onto booster might not make much sense any more. The Brits have kind of come to this conclusion by ending their booster program for under-50’s without complicating conditions. Meanwhile, we are letting contracts to build major vaccine plants and continuing to jab like it’s still 2021. Note I have had two boosters; one Moderna, one Pfizer. But if the cost/benefit data holds up, I will probably not have another. What made excellent sense before may not make sense at all now.

Well said Richard G.

Brilliant article Paul Bertorelli!
Level, measured and researched. Bravo!
The second-to-last paragraph said it all beautifully.
Thank you for being a voice of reason amongst our sometimes difficult population.
-Thumbs Up, Way Way Up-

To the writer of this article.

Here are some basic questions to ask to pique your interest. Most of the answers can be found in scientific publications or government websites or in a basic immunology textbook. Others can only be answered “We don’t know”. All these call into question validity of the current narrative. Remember, assumptions without evidence are propaganda.

In no particular order…

– What is the estimated infection fatality rate (IFR) for the alpha covid strain? What is the IFR for the current covid strain? What is the age stratification IFR risk?

– Does the IFR account for early treatment (especially pre vaccine era)?

– What percentage of those badged as having died from covid (aka positive PCR test) who did not have one or more comorbidities?

– In the classical medical definition, does a positive PCR test alone for any infectious agent count as an actual case?

– What was the rate of asymptomatic testing?

– How does seasonality affect PCR testing?

– What is the rate of false positives and negatives in PCR testing? What variables affect this rate? How might this affect perceived course of a pandemic?

– What does the effect of vitamin d3 levels have on the outcome of hospitalizations and death from covid?

– What effect does exercise, weight and healthy diet have on the outcome of hospitalizations and death from covid?

– Has Pfizer or moderna ever in their trials and scientific papers claimed that their vaccines reduce hospitalization or death as a provable scientific endpoint?

– What is the difference between relative and absolute risk reduction?

– Where in the body does the vaccine distribute?

– How long does mRNA get produced in the body?

– What happens long term to the cells transfected with mRNA?

– Is it guaranteed that the mRNA produces only exact copies of the desired antigen? Or are there incomplete or imperfect copies being produced? What is the effect on the human body from doing this?

– Why then did the European Medical Agency accept a reduction in purity and integrity (of MRNA) in the pfizer and moderna vaccines (to a threshold of 50 percent)?

– How long does the spike protein last in the body?

– Is the spike protein benign?

– Is there a mechanism for turning off mRNA production? What are the consequences if mRNA production does not cease?

– What cells can be transfected by mRNA technology?

– Why is there a similarity between severe COVID and vaccine injury?

– Why do the COVID injections not provide sterilizing immunity?

– Does getting continuous doses of an mRNA vaccine improve your immune system’s ability to fight covid?

– Does an increase in antibody levels (from a vaccine) equate to better protection from COVID?

– Are all antibodies (vaccine generated or not) beneficial?

– Why is natural immunity consistently shown to be superior to vaccine acquired immunity?

– Are there any studies showing effective therapeutics for COVID 19?

– Why did remdesevir fail as a covid-19 theraputic?

– Why did ventiliation fail as a covid-19 treatment?

– Is there a Harvard or Stanford protocol for treating covid-19? Why?

– How many deaths associated with any drug or vaccine is typical before it is pulled from the market and issued a black box warning by the FDA?

– Has there in history ever been examples of vaccines pulled from the market?

– How many deaths occurred in proximity to the pfizer vaccine within the first 90 days of distribution?

– Why do vaccines take on average 5 to 10 years to come to market? Is it only a cost issue or are there other longer term factors that must be observed?

– Do the Pfizer trials show a reduction in all cause mortality in the treatment arm?

– Do the Pfizer trials show that there is no increase in adverse events in the treatment arm when compared to placebo?

– According to the CDC/FDA’s PRR analysis which has been recently released, how many potential safety signals have been found?

– Are these safety signals consistent with independent analysis?

Just some questions that if you can answer honestly, will make you think again about what you thought you knew. Can probably think of many more.

Good Luck.

It is great that you brought this up for discussion Paul. I really appreciate that you are open-minded and willing to delve into it a topic that is so controversial.

Just a quick note…in our ever-changing world where definitions are in flux, coupled with the fact that you shared that you have not taken the newest bivalent shot, that now defines you as…an anti-vaxxer!

See Aaron Siri’s substack to understand why this is so…

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/the-dictionary-definition-of-anti

I have had an experience that almost seems relevant to this article but in all likely hood probably relates to my age and diet more that the vaccine. I am 72 years old and have had two Pfizer vaccines and two Moderna boosters. I had Covid19 in July of 2022 with mild symptoms. I did not feel too bad but my oxygen level was depressed into the high 80s. I tested positive for about 10 days.
What I will describe below was more than 4 months after the second Pfizer vaccine. I was experiencing a mild irritation around my heart. I thought it might be mild pericarditis or myocarditis but the time since the vaccine and my age almost certainly should have made that irrelevant. Also, I had no symptoms of Covid. In late July of 2021 I developed a Right Bundle Branch Block (RBBB) while exercising on an elliptical at a moderately high heart rate. At that time I often exercised to a heart rate near 165. I was just at a heart rate near 155 and the heart rate monitor suddenly spiked to 175. I felt normal and my heart rate recovered quickly. I had no unusual sensations or unusual shortness of breath. I thought it was an anomaly of the monitor and continued my routine. After my routine, I noticed an irregular heartbeat and palpitations. I have had a low level of PVCs my whole life and just discounted this. After a few days, I became concerned and made an appointment with my regular doctor. He took an EKG and referred me to a cardiologist.

Due to staffing issues related to the Covid stress on the hospital system, my referral was lost. It was six weeks before I got into the cardiologist. In the meantime, I bought a Kardia EKG device and it detected a wide QRS complex. I did not know what that meant. When I got to the cardiologist he said I had an RBBB. I wore a Holter monitor for a month, then had a stress test, and echocardiogram. The cardiologist thought I was going into tachycardia on the Holter monitor. He was obviously skeptical when I claimed I was exercising at those times. He also insisted that the irritation I felt in my chest could have been angina. There was some indication of irregularity on the EKG during the stress test but it was not clearly distinguished from the wide QRS. The ejection fraction of my heart was estimated at 57%. No anomalies were observed in my heart’s contractions. At this point, the cardiologist joked that I had had an unclear (nuclear) stress test. Sort of a pun among cardiologists. We discussed an angiogram but we both agreed that an angiogram presented as much risk as my symptoms. He then referred me to an electrophysiologist. He reviewed my results and said why don’t you come back in six months. I argued for sooner and he agreed.
I purchased a Wellue heart monitor from Amazon. With this monitor, I learned to avoid foods that tend to cause arrhythmias such as dark chocolate, sugar substitutes that end in OL, aged cheese, and others. Eating sugar-free dark chocolate and aged cheese pushed me to 30% PVCs for one hour. Over 50% of PVCs is when intervention is considered. Normally I run 1 -3% PVCs. Also, I noticed a strange phenomenon. While exercising my heart rate began to narrow up. At first, every other heartbeat would be narrow and the other would have a wide QRS. The electrophysiologist did not seem concerned and had no good explanation. After a few more months every heartbeat was narrow when exercising. It does not get completely normal as there is still some delay but it gets sharp and narrow on the EKG. Since the RBBB improves with exercise it might relate to a circulation problem in my heart and increased perfusion with exercise. At this time I choose not to explore any further.
I thought my flying days were over since the special issuances required for a third-class medical would almost certainly not be issued in a timely manner if at all. After careful reading of the basic med regulations it became clear that since I was not diagnosed with a myocardial infarction I would qualify for a basic med. My doctor signed the forms.
Today on the elliptical I spun it up as fast as usual with the same resistance level and my heart peaked at 155 where before all this it would have been in the 160 range. My heart is slower but I am 1.5 years older also.
I really do not think this relates to the vaccine but it has been in the back of my mind. I chose to share my experience but I may regret doing so.

All good herer, no untoward symptomes, back flying within a week

It has always been irrational for government/pharma to state that mRNA drugs have no side effects.
Being a rational person, I’ll wait until this experimentation period is over.
So far, the only conclusive data I have is that there was never a vaccine to prevent the contraction and spread of Covid 19.

I’ve had five Covid shots (the original two, plus three boosters since) and the only effect has been that the single time I caught Covid, it was a mild case thanks to the immunity that I had achieved. While I agree that there are undoubtedly a very rare case here and there where someone is injured by a vaccine, for every one of those there are thousands and thousands, perhaps millions, who are helped.

I laugh when I read “my immune system will protect me.” Yes, if you get vaccinated, you give your immune system a fighting chance at protecting you. Without vaccination, your immune system will get run over as if by a steam roller. If you survive, your immune system may be better able to deal with Covid the next time. Or not, if enough time has passed.

I know a lot of people and a lot of pilots, and I don’t know any who have been injured by vaccination, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there are a small handful out there. Your odds of continued health are much better with vaccination than without.

I’ve had all five shots — the original sequence (Pfizer), both original boosters (Moderna, to mix it up a bit), and the Pfizer bivalent.

I had some mild chills from the original Pfizer vaccine about a day after. The Moderna booster had a more pronounced effect with some fever and body aches, again about a day after. All of these symptoms resolved within 12 hours of onset. The bivalent booster didn’t produce any such symptoms, but the injection site was itchy for several days.

In all five of those cases, I avoided flying for the FAA-required 48 hours from the injection, which seems to have been the correct interval since I felt perfectly fine in all cases after 48 hours.

I have not had COVID (knock wood), at least as far as I know. I suppose it’s possible that I had an asymptomatic case. I lost a good friend to COVID, sadly before any vaccines were available, so I take this stuff seriously. He was a healthy and athletic 60yo.

I’ve read that they’re thinking that we’ll be moving to an annual vaccine regimen, as we do with the flu vaccines, and that it will probably be a combination shot for both flu and COVID. I get the flu vaccine every year, and I would certainly get the combo.

Why the controversy? Well, the FAA does not have vaccine listed as a means of COVID-19 prevention in their Safety Alert for Operators (SAFO):
https://drs.faa.gov/browse/excelExternalWindow/FAA00000000000000000SAFO20009PDF.0001

Good news, the FAA does allow pilots to take part of an experimental medical treatment as long as it doesn’t prevent the pilot from their duties:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-61/subpart-A/section-61.53

Research Credit to: ChatGPT

Brother in law claims he was,is injured from the covid vaccination,where the needle was jabbed.Another brother in law passed away from,covid pneumonia,never asked if he was vaccinated.Myself,seemed like the main stream media,rather then respecting humans and human intelligence was trying to control their emotions.As well the discrimination against the unvaccinated,i couldn’t figure out.

If you’re going to reference Steve Kirsh on Covid simply because he was educated at MIT and got rich, you might as well reference Ted Kaczynski on social engineering, since he is Harvard educated and famous. The data is overwhelmingly clear: the Covid vaccine is as safe as the MMR and influenza vaccines, and is exceedingly effective in saving lives and preventing hospitalizations. That data comes from multiple non-pharmaceutical company studies done by respected and believable researchers. Oh, and no, Damar Hamlin has not died from the Covid vaccine and been replaced by the NFL with a body double.

I fly 737s out of ORD.

I am unjabbed and will stay that way. All I’ve ever had was the cold and/or flu. Never a big deal.

I personally know three flight attendants that have died suddenly within six months of each other. One FA for Fronteir died of brain cancer after only being diagnosed for one month. Age 29. Two Envoy ORD FAs died suddenly of massive heart attacks within three days of each other in the same bid status. I flew with both of them in the past. They were otherwise healthy.

One pilot I flew with in June 2022 just died of brain cancer. Diagnosed only a few months ago. Another pilot who was very healthy running five miles daily got diagnosed with myocarditis and is permanently down. Both were in my bid status and both were younger than me.

Another DEC for Envoy died suddenly during his IOE on takeoff out of ORD. The CKA took control and landed back in ORD without further incident. After landing he changed seats and taxied to the gate. It must have been obvious the new Capt was dead.

Capt Bob Snow incident in DFW, AA.

If you watch and believe the MSM narrative then you will never know the real truth until it affects you directly. Hopefully you won’t kill hundreds of people when you find out the hard way.

If you got jabbed you owe it to yourself and everyone else to get tested for cardiac and clotting issues. If you don’t do that, then you’re taking a chance with other people’s lives.

And one last note: if you think the government or MSM is there to help you or save anyone’s lives then your are completely deluded.

https://truthpress.com/news/american-airlines-pilot-dies-suddenly-during-flight/

“Reports surfaced on Tuesday that a recently hired Envoy Air pilot had collapsed and been pronounced dead shortly after taking off from Chicago O’Hare International Airport en route to Columbus, Ohio.

Captain Patrick Ford of the American Eagle Embraer 175 passed out at the controls at 7:59 p.m. on Saturday, November 19, shortly after the plane had taken off from the runway, Alex Berenson reported.

A recording of the incident shows that Captain Ford was talking to an air traffic controller when his voice suddenly stopped.”

In the before-COVID-era (and before COVID vaccination), heart disease was the leading cause of death among US adults. So, in fact, some people who put on a red sweater (for example) died of heart disease later that day. Some people who just bought a new car (for example) died of heart disease later that day. Some people who got a new job (or who had just retired) died of heart disease later that day.

None of these events demonstrate a causal association. The fallacy “post hoc, ergo propter hoc” (in English, “after this, therefore because of this”) is so common that it has its own Wikipedia page. I suggest that many commenters here read it.

The real question is whether the risk of dying of heart disease among those who put on a red sweater was any different than the risk of dying of heart disease among those who put on a sweater of another color (and so on). I can assure you that it wasn’t and that we need not be afraid of red sweaters.

Asking whether any cardiac event occurred after vaccination gives us only half of the information we need to make an evidence-informed inference (as to whether the vaccine is a risk factor for a cardiac event). The only question that has relevance is whether the rate of cardiac events is greater among persons who got the vaccine than the rate of cardiac events among persons who did not get the vaccine.

Since heart disease is common and vaccination is common, even if there is, in reality, no causal linkage, hundreds of thousands of persons who receive the COVID vaccine will also subsequently develop heart disease. That fact, alone, doesn’t prove anything.

Warning!

My perfectly healthy wife was hospitalized immediately after the 2nd Moderna vaccine. (I had no trouble other than a bit of fatigue). She was very ill, with uncontrollable vomiting and what may have been liver shutdown problems. In the end, the hospital knew what to do to control the issue, and she ended up with nothing more than a (so they tell us) a benign irregular heartbeat of two forms. My point is that there may have been a interaction with other drugs she takes, in particular, Tylenol. Nothing was ever reported as an adverse reaction to the vaccine. That hospital visit cost me a fortune.

I’m 59, in poor health, vaccinated, and and my EKG is still perfect.

…got 5 Modernas, reacted slightly to one; sore arm. Was texting about Covid and vaccinations with a nurse I worked with in Haiti and the Out Islands after Harvey/Maria/Irma; she’s been working ICU and Covid wards since the beginning of the pandemic. I’m quoting her here: “If people actually understood what a crapshoot Covid is, and what it is like to drown in your own snot, essentially, there’d be longer lines trying to get the shots. I’ve worked trauma, I’ve worked ICU/NICU and the only, ONLY thing I’ve worked that’s worse than a terminal Covid case was Ebola. It could mutate here into something with a 90 percent fatality rate in a month, only because people have gotten so blasé about masks and just washing your damn hands.” Words to stay alive by.

You are to be commended for putting this topic out there for discussion.

The issue we have is not with individuals relating their own stories and opinions but the lack of a single gathering of unbiased, independent research to take emotion out of the equation and get to the cold hard facts. Unless that happens, we will never come together.

If your data comes from a company that makes billions off of these injections, how can you consider that unbiased? If your data comes from anecdotal accounts that are not compiled to get a large enough sample of what is happening, how can we rely on that?

As a pilot, you rely on the “data” you get from your instruments and your own training. If you didn’t, how could you safely accomplish your mission?

It is time to demand factual data in regards to where we are – and more importantly – determine where we are going.

From the lengthy article, and maybe record-breaking number of responses, it’s very clear to us all we want to make safe and healthy choices, but in this case it’s like choosing between the devil and the deep blue sea….and it is a very personal choice. Or at least many would like it to be. In this case, the US government was trying to make it where there was no choice. Yes, you could choose “thanks, but no thanks” and consider yourself out of a job and generally, looked upon as a numb skull outcast. That is not right at all. When even a stat of 1 in a million will die…who will want to be “one”? And if you are “one”, in this case a toss of the dice chance, the other 999,999 don’t matter to you. If you are lucky to survive, but are seriously disabled, you probably will wish you were dead. My point here is that is it a very personal choice.

We all should be asking why weren’t there therapeutic products encouraged and brought online. They are out there, including nasal sprays in trials. Maybe it is because big pharma did not like that to happen.

And my last remark is even sobering to me. On a routine check up in one of the major learning hospitals in Manhattan, a physician resident made a casual comment to me in passing conversation that was imprinted in my mind….”We are mindful that we are starting to see patients with reactions to the vaccine.” I did not question further. That was enough for me to be mindful.

I’ll keep it short. I know two people at my airline that died of Covid, neither was vaccinated. I’ve had all the shots and boosters. Never a reaction and, luckily, never had Covid. Had the shingles vaccination, it hurt like hell and I felt crappy for three days.

Greetings Paul, Interesting Question. I’m 66 and I’ve had all 5 Moderna shots with no cardiac anomalies. My reactions were limited to a sore shoulder for 18 hours each time. I never had Covid and I still test negative and I mask in public. I used to maintain a 1st class medical and now keep a 2nd class with annual EKGs. No changes since the “before times”. My wife (formerly first class, now basic med) also got all the same shots as I did and had unpleasant (but not dangerous) reactions all 5 times (in bed for 24 hours, felt icky for 48) but has not had any cardiac changes (nor caught the virus). My son holds a 1st class, has had 4 (Moderna) shots, is flying the line and has had Covid (a very mild case that he picked up on a work trip after his 4th shot). My 94 Y.O. mother lives with us and has also had all five (Pfizer) vaccines and is Covid free. My mother and son both had non-reactions to the vaccines as I did. No pilot I know has had a debilitating reaction to the vaccine but 1 died of the virus (before the vaccine was available) and several more have been sickened for extended periods by the virus. My experience is that the virus is MUCH more dangerous than the vaccine. Thank you science!

I had COVID in January of 2021, before the vaccines were available to me. I received the first vaccination shot in April of 2021 and had a powerful reaction to it (similar to having COVID again, but for two days instead of six). On advice of my physician, I declined the second dose in May. I received a “booster” (or second-dose shot, depending on how you count it) in October when my employer was insisting that everyone become fully vaccinated. Again, I had a reaction (like having COVID a third time). So I’m done. I don’t need to experience it again. But I don’t believe I have had any long term affects.

On the other hand, my step-son (a man in his late-30s) has had a string of heart issues (worthy of surgical correction) in the year since his vaccination, and he never had heart problems before.

So there you have it: two contrary and anecdotal data points.

OBVIOUSLY injecting messenger RNA into a human body has side effects.
We just don’t know what they are, the severity, or if there will be long term effects.

Paul hit’s still another subject out of the park. Over 100 comments now. One thing is for sure … you know what they say about opinions … everyone has one. Good job, Paul!

I took two moderna shots and one booster and I ain’t takin’ no mo’ .

Many interesting comments. Paul, I for one commend you for taking on this topic. So much money has flowed from government into aviation and pharma into media businesses, that is impossible to get objectivity.

At the risk of stating the obvious, a person who took the covid shots and died, would not be able to complete the survey. Also, the survey has a very strong confirmation bias. Most of the respondents that got the covid shots also got covid, multiple times.

It is true that the FAA increased the EKG PR parameters by 100%. Here is the important question, The FAA has not said why. If they did, maybe that would reduce some speculation and conspiracy theories. There are several leading cardiologists waiting for the rationale from the FAA.

It is also true that there is a worldwide increase in excess mortality since 2020. That should be expected due to the pandemic. However, excess mortality has not returned to the same levels as before the pandemic despite a reduction in hospitalizations. Obviously if excess mortality has increased for the general population, it will increase for pilots. Some statisticians point to the covid shots as the reason for the continuing excess morbidly. Some cardiologists have a theory that the spike proteins in the covid shots are causing clots, heart inflammation resulting in heart attacks.

The latest research is demonstrating that there many factors that determine the risk of covid shot injury including, varied loads in vaccines (lack of quality control), placement of the shot in the arm, genetic factors, underlying chronic diseases, immune response, vitamin deficiencies, age, sex and acidity of the body. It appears the risk of injury is random chance.

Many of you should beware of bridge vendors. The pilot population is obviously a target rich environment for them.
Here in ‘Straya the only people I know who have had covid have all had multiple “vaxxes”. None of the unvaxxed, who also haven’t suffered badly from colds and flu while the vaxxed have. Yes, anecdotal
Plenty of suspected injuries amongst my circle of friends and acquaintances and the doc in charge of a local hospital ER stood up at a public meeting a bit over a year ago and said he was sick of seeing people come in with vax injuries.
Here in ‘Straya there is something like a 17% increase in heart attacks amongst working age people. The authorities are baffled, baffled I tell you!
Don’t rely on the MSM, do some digging on the net.

Umm, you are posting on one of the more obscure corners of that same net. (sorry Paul)
Those who died aren’t going to post here, those who are injured and are pilots are perhaps also unlikely to for obvious reasons.
Where do you get your information from? The MSM? The Government? Both are proven sources of lies and at best half truths. These organizations always work their own agendas and your life and health aren’t part of them.

When I saw this article, I had to double check that I read the title correctly.
My first thought was, damn…a pervasive conspiracy theory had somehow leaked through to a normally sober publication. Then I saw the author and thought I would give it a chance.
While I agree with Paul that there has been some “spin” on the whole Covid situation by the government and pharmaceutical industry (shocking I know), I do not believe there has been any spin on peer reviewed, credentialled research published by respected medical journals. And the pertinent facts are these: The death rate of the unvaccinated, are significantly higher than among the vaccinated.
Professionally I sail as captain aboard a ship with over 50 crew, and in my workplace we have mandated the vaccine. We have let people go who refused to get “the jab”.
Personally, I was willing to get vaccinated not only to protect myself, but more importantly to protect the immunology vulnerable I may encounter in my uniquely isolated work environment. It was the right thing to do.
Good job to Paul who as usual, did a brilliant job disseminating a difficult controversial topic. I can just imagine the grief he took to even get this article published here!

Well said, Michael R and others of similar awareness.
I’m fully vaxed, mid 70’s, caught Covid once last August I’m certain from a commercial flight which lasted about a week with a tough cough, deep in the lungs, but survived without any long symptoms, it seems. Fellow pilot flies a M20 at 81 yrs still, is a diabetic and had Covid post vaccines last July and just had cold symptoms.

Regarding the children at the table, society’s emotional and social intelligence has been in free fall since at least the 1970s, with no end in sight. It’s directly related to anti-intellectualism, lazy affirmation of conspiracy theories and denial of science and reason, among other things. Tribalism without a cause, or benefit.

Far too many today are spinning within themselves and are unable to see the necessary, greater form of leadership needed in difficult times. Demanding personal freedom to do whatever you want without acknowledging its counterpart of personal responsibility – and in the case of a global health prerogative like Covid, a greater social responsibility – isn’t patriotism, it’s adolescence.

For me at this time in my life, I’m done trying to teach pigs to sing. I’ve become too detached, am too experienced and too imbued with good manners not to know when to leave the table. I’d rather sip wine and coffee at home now or in airport cafes and graze on tapas. 🙂

Cudos to Paul for always fighting the good fight as an always curious aviation writer/philosopher and presenting his best for our study. He and Berg are treasures to me.

Your questioning of vaccines has prompted the Biden DOJ to order your cancelation on all social media and you have been tagged as a Russian propagandist.
The FBI is going to raid your house and parade you through the streets now…

You should have just stole classified material and said it was so Trump wouldn’t see it, but nooooo… you had to go anti vacs.

PS… some countries are just finding out that these vaccine companies knew of the harm and were deliberately hiding the information. A princes is in a comma, and they believe now it was from the vacine. This has prompted a voiding of their immunity because they entered into the agreement with their country fraudulently.
I would sell any med stock real quick.

Paul,
Do you think a pilot would risk saying, yea, I had some issues, and never fly again because his medical is instantly void? Or would people hide it.
I think the latter. For most pilots, it is all they know. It is their livelihood, and the vaccine makers can not be sued in the US for hurting people. You can’t claim disability, because you can do other jobs, like serving the fries at McDonalds. They don’t mind if you drop dead while flipping burgers.
I don’t think a pilot population is a good source for people to open up and say, yea, I had issues.

Here is another issue. I had two family members die last year. My mother had many issues leading up to her passing away at 88. My brother was murdered. I spent a lot of time at hospitals, at the morgue, and funeral directors.

I didn’t see hospitals full of people with COVID. NOTE… when there was a claim that hospitals were over flowing with patents, they were before COVID. Hospitals don’t make money with empty beds. They are businesses and want the rooms full of paying customers.
I personal know of no one with proven COVID as reason for hospitalization. I know of no one that died from COVID.
When vaccines are added into the mix, you really don’t know why the person is sick anymore. And the morgue and hospitals were getting paid for COVID deaths. This came straight from the horses mouth.
That is like telling a little boy, if you say you are a girl, you get a candy bar. All of a sudden we have no little boys. They are all girls.
Not much can be trusted anymore. I will not confirm or deny my vaccine status. It isn’t anyone business, not even an employer. There is zero evidence it helps anyone with anything, and the executives have admitted this under oath when questioned in the Netherlands.
We may never know what help or harm the vaccines caused.

I’m reading the posts and find it fascinating… it is like asking a bunch of kids that took drugs from the local street corner drug dealer. Some took meth, some fentanyl, some cocaine.
Hey, did anyone get sic from these or was the high real good? Life in mom and dads basement is killing me…
Well, the dead ones can’t say how bad their trip was… only a few people were hospitalized, but got reversal drugs to counter the bad effects… so, that ain’t bad.
The street corner drug dealer doesn’t really know if these drugs will help you in any way, and will not confirm or deny they will not hurt you. The drug dealer is judgement proof… so, you are out of luck if it does harm or kill you.
So yea… let’s all try some of each.
This entire situation doesn’t sound good.

Level head and higher (than average) IQ individuals, is how I’ve grown up in the AV community. You know what’s right, just do that! Rule to live by. I’ve thought the same of the medical community. All of a sudden, Emergency Use Authorizations, No FDA approval, Canceled for Questions, Legal Immunity forever, Two years of “Listen to the Science ONLY”, masks, etc. and then finally, after piecing together from non-Mainstream internet sites, that you are warned “not to visit”, you discover ….Huge money for having covid and death from covid paid to Hospitals… clotting, heart attack, stroke, Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, Unexplained Death, 17-35 yr. olds dying of heart related, insurance company finds 40% higher death rates in 2021(or was it ’22). So you want to have these guy’s put that substance into your body and change the definition of Vaccine on top of it????
I now only Trust Myself. And that’s not Good but the best I can do, under the circumstances!

Correlation does not mean causation.

This whole comment section is as bad as anything you can find on the gutter social media. Shame on AvWeb / Paul for creating yet another cesspit.

—

Here is an OPINION.

Post WWII and the great vaccination drive against a host of diseases, many were banished or pushed to the margins. But it appears that as vax denying of all types takes hold – the population is losing herd immunity and the old and new diseases are resurgent.

A lot of death and disease will take place and Darwin will win out. If it reduces the “growth at all costs” world population from its current unsustainable 8 billion – it will be doing the planet a favor. Nothing says homo sapiens has a “right” to survive into the future.

I’m trying to come up with a reason this article is anything but clickbait, and coming up dry. Lots of factual pro-vax, acknowledged hearsay anti-vax, and… who can say?

Credibility is hard won, and easily lost. This one lost it.

I got the first shot as soon as it was available. No side effects. I’ve gotten every new variant of shot since then. I’ve tested positive for covid once. I felt like crap for about 18 hours then felt fine. At that time the official guidance was mandatory 7 days out of the office if you test positive so I got a nice paid vacation out of it and spent the time doing lots of projects around the house.

Around that same period, several of my anti-vax employees also tested positive. Some of them reported feeling like crap and being unable to function for the entire 5 day period they were off and then still suffering from effects of the infection for weeks after they returned. At least one of them recovered and came back to work, but reported lasting headaches afterward that ended up forcing that individual to quit due to being unable to continue to perform the job.

I had every shot that’s become available and I plan to continue to do so. I know it won’t prevent me from getting infected 100% of the time (no vaccine is ever 100% effective) but my experience has shown me that it will reduce the severity of any covid infection I end up with. My one and only regret as far as covid vaccination goes is that I did not invest heavily in tin foil companies before this all started and reading the comments here makes me regret it even more.

Looks like you really picked a scab off with this topic based on the number of comments.

I guess by now I shouldn’t be surprised at the number of posts influenced by unfounded conspiracy theories or anecdotal “evidence” (“I know a guy who…” or “I got vaccinated and ‘X’ happened…”)

No vaccine is 100% effective against its target disease. The Covid vaccines are no different. The actual scientific evidence is overwhelming: The vaccine greatly reduces the risk of catching the disease, and reduces the chance of death or hospitalization from the disease to an incredibly small number. The data gathered from numerous scientific studies which have been published and peer-reviewed along with the actual results of billions of vaccines given clearly show this. No amount of “yeah but I was vaccinated and still got it” or “I know a guy who knows someone …” or some uninformed so-called newscaster repeating conspiracy theories outweighs the actual, scientifically-vetted evidence. The chances of significant injury from the vaccines are completely dwarfed by the chance of a serious complication from going unvaccinated and contracting Covid, particularly among older people.

I’m a believer in science and the scientific method. There is not much point to surveys such as this other than generating traffic from click-bait titles. The real “survey” is in the actual results.

Paul, I am not sure if I have seen another subject from Avweb that received such a response.

Good job.

God bless.

Hi everyone. I don’t have anything of value to add to the discussion, but I didn’t want to be left out. Say, how about them Mets?

Paul, could you please provide a conclusion?” Are COVID vaccines injuring pilots?

The “unidentified” Army person is Lt. Col Theresa Long, MD. She is a fight surgeon who was simply presenting DMED data from the military medical database and personal experiences grounding Army pilots due to damage from the Covid shots. The data shows these shots coinciding with massive increases (500-1000%) in a wide variety of diseases. She, along with many other doctors, presented this and other hard evidence in sworn senate hearings run by Senator Johnson.

I love your work Paul, but you need to quit using the word “conspiracy theorist” and start doing some real research on these shots. You can’t trust the doctors because they will face threats to their license if they don’t toe the line on Covid. You can’t trust the mainstream media because a huge portion of their advertising comes from big pharma.

Listen to Dr. Michael Yeadon to start with. He is a former Pfizer VP.

Also read RFK Jr’s book “The Real Anthony Fauci”. It is irresponsible to utter a word about Covid without reading this book.

Thanks Paul for a balanced article. It’s obvious that many of the anti-vaxer posts here are unlikely to be from pilots. I’m an airplane ATPL, airplane and helicopter CFI.

My view is that Governments have failed to educate and have gaslighted the population as to what a vaccination is, its need, and how long it is good for. Similarly 99% of the population do not even know how to wear a N95 mask. I’ll plead guilty. I now only were a mask where its asked for.

The facts are that by 3 months after vaccination, we lose 90% of our antibodies and require another shot to boost it back up again.

Since Dec 2020, I’ve now had 8 vaccinations in just over 2 years and to my knowledge never got covid. I was constantly exposed and while living with a covid positive person, never tested positive. When its 3-4 months after my last shot, I will get another until science says a longer period is appropriate.

I’ve had Phizer, Moderna, J&J, the latest combo by a name I can’t even recall. The worst side effects occurred after a 2nd dose , a temperature for a few hours. After J&J I stopped flying for 2 days from mild fever symptoms. My first Moderna had a kick like a mule, my head felt like it was in a vice for about 12 hours. That I regard as minor and to be expected.

The FAA AIH has a great Chapter 2 “Human Behaviour” and it describes “denial”, especially “reaction formation” where people fabricate a false narrative because they cannot accept reality.

The anti-covid responses are classic symptoms of hazardous attitudes and all the crazy justifications and rationalizations that we all use or have used to some extent if we are not aware of them.

I’ve lost count of the number of brainwashed people who claimed to have “known a friend” who died after getting vaccinated. Yes, people die, yes people get seriously ill and there may or may not be a nexus to their vaccination.

Its a fact that a small percentage of vaccinated people did suffer cardiac problems after vaccination but thats were some logical reasoning is called for. The risk of vaccination has to be weighted against the risks of not being vaccinated.

Proper at risk screening should dramatically reduce the number or at risk vaccinations. Education as to what is a normal and abnormal reaction should get those becoming at risk the help they need at the earliest possible time that should decrease their risk.

In 2021 I met a large number of pilots all over the USA and about 50% did not get vaccinated. This seemed to be part of their political orientation. Most reported permanent loss of smell and very few would admit to having suffered any “brain fog” which is also a common known effect of having suffered COVID. Then those who only got 1 – 3 shots over longer than 3 months between shots, often got mild Covid that was probably milder because of the protection from an old but still partially effective vaccination.

The most disturbing part of the Anti-vaxers is their failure to understand their duty to society, their duty to others and how getting vaccinated helps stop the spread.

Medivac pilots I know told me that they increasingly had young children and many went on to suffer permanent pulmonary and cardiac risk.

Many of the Anti-vaxers did get very sick from Covid and suffer permanent effects that will reduce their life expectancy.

Paul, “ms” means milliseconds, not microseconds. “μs” is the symbol for microseconds.

Hi Paul

When did the FAA change the parameter for PR Interval? I googled something that said it was in 2017. Have you chased that down?
Thanks

Both my wife and I are vaccinated up to and including the bivalent.
All of both our families, siblings and children (~40 people) have at least had the two vaccinations, most have had the bivalent as well, with the exception of one family of four, and one nephew. The un-vaccinated family got very very sick once with Covid but all survived.
Of the rest, some have had mild to moderate cases of Covid (none severe).
My auto mechanic died of Covid before vaccinations came out. He had pre-existing conditions.
Most of our extended circle of friends are vaccinated. I know of no one who has had cardiac or other significant adverse reaction to a vaccination, and few have had more than a moderate case of Covid.

I also think everyone should read the real Dr. Fauci, after every chapter I thought why is he not in jail.

The first problem is in the US we do not make vaccine injury reporting mandatory. My own doctor’s wife lost function in both arms after the jab and found out it was not easy to voluntarily report the injury. I know two people who got blood clots and passed out after the jab. I have a brother in law who got the myocarditis after the jab who struggled at work for a year he is a lawn chemical applicator. My Nephew age 17 got myocarditis after the jab and had enough damage to his heart had to go to cardiologist and cardiologist said no more high school sports which he had been playing football and basketball. Same thing happened to a customer’s son. Unfortunately also know two people who died after the jab.

A report from an English doctor I saw theorizes the myocarditis is being caused by improper training of the people giving the jab, they are supposed to aspirate the needle ( pull back slightly to see if there is blood) if blood observed then they hit the blood vessel and the jab is supposed to go into muscle so the body slowly absorbs vaccine in the blood vessel it get to the heart too quickly potentially causing the myocarditis.

Also interesting why are the vaccines still experimental after all the doses that have been administered? Well is it because you don’t have to tell the public about the side effects like the drug manufactures do for approved drugs. We all have heard the TV commercials telling us about the drug side effects, why has there been nothing about any of the covid vaccine side effects. Has any one seen any warnings about corvid vaccine side effects, I have not

Take look at the government’s vaccine injury compensation website https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data
There is a new report out on the site 2-2-2023 but I don’t see covid vaccines listed in the report strangely.

On the website it does say the program covers covid vaccines, then why are they not in the report?

In the Fauci book they stated there were over 500,000 claims filed over a year ago.

In our family the unvaccinated did not get covid the fully vaccinated have had it at least twice.

In the nursing home my mother was in after the covid booster was administered to a population who was tested weekly and at the time of the jab no known cases of covid, within 48 hours 35% of the residents had covid while being confined to their rooms. Even
the medical staff thought that was unusual as even at the height of covid they had never seen that kind of spike.

The way the virus is transmitted in the normally aspirated breath is the same for most viruses and yet a career virologist Dr Fauci apparently did not know if masks worked based on his recommendation that you did not need a mask then you did.

The problem with the masks is they are good for water droplets like for coughing or sneezing
but for the virus expelled in normally aspirated breath the masks can not filter the virus molecule as it is too small. You can tell most masks are not doing much as when you breathe you are not feeling any resistance.

Here is a link to a recent article one can read read to learn about an American Airlines pilot’s experience…

“Pilot Has Heart Attack Six Minutes After Landing Commercial Plane, And He Blames 1 Thing”
by Jack Davis on 2/1/23
in The Western Journal

https://www.westernjournal.com/pilot-heart-attack-six-minutes-landing-commercial-plane-blames-1-thing/

The calculus of risk has completely left out other methods of prevention besides experimental mRNA genetic shots, ventilators, and somewhat risky drugs like Paxlovid.

Seemingly never discussed as alternatives are protocols for both prevention and treatment by McCulloch, FLCCC, Zelenko and others which have been proven to work.

Why is the only choice seemingly ever discussed mRNA genetic cocktails or nothing?

For disclosure I did not get any of the shots but I did finally get C19 in December of 2022 and it was like a bad cold or middle morbidity flu. I was on travel and did not get to do any treatment for two days and recovered in about a week. I treated using quercetin, zinc, C, and D. I know at least three people who died as a result of getting one or more of the shots, one who was a neighbor, another a neighbor of a friend whom I had briefly met, and another close friend who shortly after getting the shot went from healthy to suddenly dead in a month or so of what is normally a very slow growing and treatable type of cancer. The sad part is he only got it so he could go to a funeral of a friend.

Oh and I forgot to mention I am a flight instructor.

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion about the shots too. They are mRNA genetic modifiers they are not vaccines in the normal sense of generating an immune response by presenting a pathogen or part of a pathogen; they use mRNA to get your own cells to make spike protein so your body will then react to this protein and generate an immune response.

Per the manufacturers own advice, none of the mRNA products are sterilizing. You can get infected because they do not prevent it; the objective of the mRNA shots is to mitigate morbidity and possibly death due in large part to a cytokine “storm” reaction to actual infection.

Dr. Robert Malone who invented the mRNA process has himself called into question the efficacy of such a therapy saying that it was considered early on as a potential route for creation of vaccines but was dropped because the inventors at the time did not believe the drug makers could keep up with the changes in targets due to frequency and speed of mutation. Thus until Pfizer and the lot adopted this approach, it never saw a product made for the purpose of dealing with immunization.

Now we have a situation where a director level person at Pfizer has been caught admitting that they have been modifying C19 in house in an attempt to predict what mutations might be eventually found in the wild and try to target them in advance. Of course there is always the question of moral hazard, which that person themselves hinted at being possibly compromised at the company.

To label people “anti-vaxers” or “conspiracy theorists” is to ignore the now large and growing body of evidence from people like Malone, McCulloch, Zelenko, and now a huge number of researchers and practitioners who are now almost daily putting out new information on theraputic approaches and results of the mRNA therapies. To those people I say, please do some reading and stop resting on your misguided notions and now demonstrably incorrect information. Learn the biology involved. Learn the mechanisims of action. Dig. You owe it to yourself, unlike those that say it’s a duty to society to take an experimental drug which it never is.

Well … at 225 comments, Paul has now broken his own all time comment record!

Why Do Vaccinated People Represent Most COVID-19 Deaths Right Now?

Cynthia Cox Follow @cynthiaccox on Twitter , Krutika Amin Follow @KrutikaAmin on Twitter , Jennifer Kates Follow @jenkatesdc on Twitter , and Josh Michaud Follow @joshmich on Twitter
Nov 30, 2022

The share of COVID-19 deaths among those who are vaccinated has risen. In fall 2021, about 3 in 10 adults dying of COVID-19 were vaccinated or boosted. But by January 2022, as we showed in an analysis posted on the Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker, about 4 in 10 deaths were vaccinated or boosted. By April 2022, the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) data show that about 6 in 10 adults dying of COVID-19 were vaccinated or boosted, and that’s remained true through at least August 2022 (the most recent month of data).

kff.org/policy-watch/why-do-vaccinated-people-represent-most-covid-19-deaths-right-now/

Had the initial pair and then the first round of boosters in ’21. Didn’t get COVID until ’22, 3 weeks after, in an effort to lose weight, quitting alcohol. Since Congress passed prohibition in December of 1917 and the Spanish Flu was in 1918 and also the source for so many dire images in 2020, clearly Big Booze is behind COVID. It never was Big Pharma. Big Pharma is just a boilerplate Hollywood trope.

As a child growing up in the 50’s, we were really happy to see polio vaccines and I’ve been a believer ever since. Being afraid of a tiny risk as opposed to accepting a large risk indicates a lack of understanding of probability, which seems common. Just look at how many people spend their hard earned money on lotteries.

Off the subject, but how do I change my name on the posts. We have two John W.s.

For those still looking over the comments here, the cardiologist Paul referred to in the article, Dr Thomas Levy MD, was interviewed by Del Bigtree on his program called “The Highwire” yesterday. They lead off the program with the interview, and it lasts for nearly a half-hour.

One can find this interview in Episode 306, entitled “DANGER IN THE SKIES”…
https://thehighwire.com

A very good explanation of the risks to pilots is made by Dr. Kevin Stillwagon a retired Delta Capitan. Go to rumble.com and search on “dr. kevin stillwagon” and you will see many interviews with Dr. Stillwagon.

Hi Paul,
Thank you for your balanced approach. As risk managers we all know that good decisions are based on the need to always take in all the data available and evaluate it honestly.

Perhaps extending the research outside just Aircrew to the population as a whole and then reducing the results to the proportion of pilots thereunder may help obtain a more generalised yet accurate view of subclinical issues that may or may not manifest in the future.

As a professional pilot of some decades I have a close interest and try and read widely, hearing all sides. Of late there is little evidence to support the ‘safe and effective’ narrative. The implications of the ‘safe’ part are what should concern anyone engaged in a potentially high risk enterprise. Any increased potential for incapacitory events bears thorough investigation. Dr Nikolai Petrovsky has just published on Substack and I commend it to you. It is well researched and has many excellent references. He is without doubt an authority in vaccinology. https://sads.substack.com/p/the-curious-case-of-south-australian

An active pilot for 41 years, Tim McAdams suffered two strokes within one month of his 2nd jab. One can read his story here…

https://usfreedomflyers.substack.com/p/helicopter-and-fixed-wing-pilot-describes

For detailed clinical information on Pfziers own reports researched By Naomi Wolf and Dr.Robert Malone (one of the inventors of the MnRna vaccine) look them up

https://twitter.com/SeanBFlanagan/status/1637122946954059778?t=n4a2GZgeR5XmE9XCSMZW0g&s=19

This was an informative session. Whilst the personal stories give background, the clear, unequivocal statements by the aviation medical examiners were telling. They constitute strong observational evidence of increased risk to pilot fitness to operate and that the acceptable standards thereof are being compromised.

We don’t need to ask for the reasoning for any coverup as that is beyond the scope of this discussion, at least at this stage. Our professional responsibility as an Industry should be solely focused on safety of flight operations. Once (or if) a threat is identified then we can develop solutions, risk mitigations and management strategies.

As professionals we must be entirely evidence based when ascertaining the answers to the following questions:

1. Is there a an increased number of incidents above usual expected levels?

2. If so then what are the causal and contributory factors?

and only then:

3. Is there a demonstrable link between the mRNA jabs and pilot health/cognitive function?

Have there been further incapacition events in professional crew? Timing is irrelevant as to whether in duty for not as we are looking for a signal that pilot health has been jeopardised.